Hi Pavel.
Does that mean that there are 16 Bulava ready to arm this ship?
And what do you think, when it will go to Gadzhievo?
Cheers from Bernd Reuter

Reports say it's the 31st division in Gadzhievo. On the missiles, it's a good question. It could be that all 16 missiles are ready or it may take a while to produce them. Hard to say.

UPDATE: Another report quotes Chirkov as saying that YD will go on patrol "in the beginning of the next year." This would seem to suggest that missiles are not ready yet.

Seems Borei class can also fire strategic cruise missile unlike previous generation SSBN quoting Navy Commander Viktor Chirkov. Perhaps he means Kalbir thats tested on Yasen class

http://vpk.name/news/82257_apl_yurii_dolgorukii_smozhet_primenyat_vyisokotochnoe_oruzhie.html

Pavel, this should make an interesting read on Russian Nuclear Weapons Program written by Moscow Defence Brief

Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry: Alive and Kicking

http://www.russiadefence.net/t2292-russian-nuclear-weapons-industry#26013

Thank you. This is very interesting. Especially since Russia never really considered long-range SLCMs covered by its 1992 pledge to remove tactical nuclear weapons from submarines. I still believe that when START and SLCM reporting obligations were in force Russia did not have deployed cruise missiles. But after START, there is not much that would prevent Russia from bringing them back. It looks like SLCMs, if deployed, would have to use SLBM launchers, so they will be counted in New START, but only against the limit of non-deployed launchers.

>It looks like SLCMs, if deployed, would have to use SLBM launchers, so they will be counted in New START, but only against the limit of non-deployed launchers.

What are you talking about, Pavel? SLCMs, if deployed, would obviously be launched from torpedo tubes, similar to S-10 Granat on previous generation subs. There is no counting of anything against anything. How could you possibly launch a 533 mm SLCM out of a Bulava shaft without shipyard modifications anyway? That's a silly idea.

Secondly, PNIs only covered nuclear-armed SLCMs and they were not treaties, just gentleman's agreements. Which means that any current Russian submarine can carry SLCMs with a conventional warhead or deploy nuclear-armed SLCMs in time of crisis (when all handshake agreements are naturally terminated).

Again, this whole SLCM business is nothing new. Current gen subs can carry Granat anyway, just chose not to do so in peacetime. Kalibr is just an upgrade to that.

Klub an export variant of Kalbir can be fired from 533 mm TT as India has already been using the Klub/Kilo combination since early 2000 after modernisation.

I agree with artjomh when he says that Kalbir will be fired from TT of Borei class and not SLBM launchers.

Recently the Russian Admiral had stated that Sub Launched Kalbir had a range of 1500 km.

Yes, my mistake. Looks like SLCMs could be launched from torpedo tubes. Which makes this even more interesting.

This would be way to launch SLCMs from SLBM launchers
http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=314776&download=1

Recently the Russian Rear Admiral Sergey Alyokminsky (Commander of Caspian Flotilla) had stated that Sub Launched Kalbir had a range of 2600 km.
http://flotprom.ru/news/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=113993

Gentlemen

Seems like a logical conclusion to me. The Oscar-Class (949, 949A) is going away and the tactical capability these boats bring to the Russian Navy needs to be replaced. Both the Yasen-class and Yuri Dolgorukiy-class submarines may be needed to fill the gap.

How long ranged is “long range”? Wasn’t there some protocol in the INF treaty that limited cruse missiles to a range less than 600 kms? Any weapon over that range must be considered a strategic weapon and be counted so. Please correct me, I’m not clear on this at all.

To further add to the discussion, back in August 23, 2003, the US Navy’s Department of the Navy, Strategic Systems Programs [SSP] issued a Request for Information (RFI) to determine the latest plans and programs including technology challenges and proposed solutions for affordable Submarine Launched Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles (SLIRBMs), including launch considerations and potential payloads. At the time all this seemed rather strange. Why replace Trident with a smaller, shorter range missile? Yet, contracts were issued for work and testing on new engines, missile “avionics”, solid fueled boosters and payloads. In fact, Northrop-Grumman won a contract for some kind of “area suppression payload” in the vein of the old “Assault Breaker” project. Then news of all this faded to the world of “black”. Years later, the news broke of a new version of the USS Virginia Class. Beginning with the USS North Dakota, SSN 784 (scheduled to be commissioned in 2014) and follow-on submarines building will have two large-diameter bow tubes, replacing a dozen 21-inch vertical launch tubes. Such a launch tube could hold a seven-round magazine for Tomahawk cruise missiles or a single SLIRBM. Moreover, Virginia-class vessels planned for production starting in the 2020s are likely to feature the so-called "Virginia Payload Module" extension, which would add four more of the large-diameter tubes and triple the subs' payload capacity.

Issues worth following.

Frank Shuler
USA

No, INF only concerned itself with ground-launched cruise/ballistic missiles, which is why Granat SLCM remains in service while Relief GLCM, same missile, was withdrawn. The cutoff was 500-5500 km. All naval missiles were allowed, which is why Ohio SSGNs carry all those Tomahawks.

As for Project 949A, it is being replaced my Yasen SSGN. Some of the Project 949A's may be upgraded to carry the same missile as Yasen in modules similar to VPM, but inclined (designated as Project 949AM), but that project has not gone beyond talks so far.

As for SLIRBM, that was just a preliminary research project. Ohio Replacement RFP was officially issued for 87'' tubes, so that they'll be able to carry Trident D5 in initial stages.

Recently the Russian Rear Admiral Sergey Alyokminsky (Commander of Caspian Flotilla) had stated that Sub Launched Kalbir had a range of 2600 km:
http://flot.com/news/subscribe/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=113993

artjomh

I think the SLIRBM project was a conventional ballistic missile from conception. That was the part of the 2003 question that was misunderstood.

Frank Shuler
USA

Alexander Stukalin , The 2600 km Range is for Ship launched LACM conventional variant of Kalbir , The Navy Chief recently mentioned the sub launched variant would have a range of 1500 km , likely the need for bigger booster and special warhead would have reduced its range

I don’t have solid intel, but I’ve read/heard that the Dolgoruky was launched with 16 empty missile containers (see commentary by V. Baranetz at Komsomolskaya Pravda at link below). Without the Bulava SLBM, this new submarine is no more than a tourist attraction, a floating Potemkin village. Given the level of corruption within the Russian system, increased armament spending does not always equal increased military capability.
http://www.kp.ru/radio/program/4583/

Ray Finch

In fairness, every single Ohio-Class strategic nuclear submarine was commissioned and accepted into service by the US Navy with empty launch tubes. It’s just the way the process works in Navies.

Frank Shuler
USA

Frank- the 949A boats are undergoing (and have planned for the future) both overhauls, life extensions, as well as potentially more radical (main caliber changing) modernizations.

I think it is safe to say they are far from going away.

TR1

Of course, you’re entitled to your opinion and you may well be proved right. Has an actual Oscar II (949A) been through such a life extension overhaul and returned to the fleet with these “new capabilities” and armaments or is this a future Kremlin project?

Frank Shuler
USA

Frank-

Yes absolutely- as far as overhaul and (mild) modernization is concerned. Voronezh was worked on from 2009-2011, and is back in the fleet. Smolensk has taken its place @ Zvezdochka, and should be handed back in Summer 2013, at which point another 949A will take its place. Tomsk is being repaired @ Zvezda, Omsk was repaired there earlier, though I am not sure if there was any modernization or life extension.

There is no need to replace main caliber now, but in the future as Granit life runs out, the boats will be in for a more substantial refit. The Full scope of the modernization is still a question, but Oniks and Kalibr have been mentioned as replacements.