Pavel

On December 14th, Gen. Sergei Karakayev announced that Russia was developing a new intercontinental ballistic missile, as quoted by AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE. The system was tested back on October 24, 2012 at the Kapustin Yar test range and hit a mock target at the Sary-Shagan firing rage in neighboring Kazakhstan. He was quoted by RIA Novosti, “The solid fuel missile will allow us to realize possibilities like the creation of a high-precision strategic missile with a non-nuclear warhead with practically global range,” Karakayev was also quoted as saying that “the new 100-ton missile would be able to overcome any existing missile defense system” and “this new system would eventually replace the Yars and Topol-M ICBM in due course”.

Is this news accurate? Is this the Avangrad ICBM? If the new solid fueled missile is 100 tons, how large a system would you think the new “heavy” liquid fueled missile to be?

Frank Shuler
USA

Frank, it seems that the "new missile" discussion often confuses Avangard, a MIT-designed solid-fuel missile likely in the 50 ton ballpark, and Future Heavy ICBM, a Makeyev/NPO Mash-designed 100 ton heavy liquid-fuel missile.

Avangard was the one tested three time and mulled as a possible carrier for PGS a la Russe. The 100-ton large missile is still apparently in design stage.

By the way, was reading START I annexes a while back and it turns out that the 106 ton cut off for what was classified as a "heavy ICBM" was used in order to grandfather SS-19, which weighed 105.6 tons. That's where this whole 100-ton missile talk is coming from.

artjomh

Makes perfect sense.

At approximately 50 tons, is the Avangard expected to be only silo launched or will there be a mobile capability as well? I would think a 100,000 lbs. missile would be a stretch for TEL launch. JMO.

Interesting historical note on origins of the “heavy” ICBM.

Frank Shuler
USA

Topol-M/Yars chassis can carry up to 80 tons. SS-24 weighed 105 tons, so weight is not an issue for erectors in general either.

Also, every singe ballistic missile that MIT built has been road-capable.

artjomh

I remember the SS-24 being both silo and rail launched but not TEL road-mobile. Not an engineer; but, would think going from 80 to 100 tons would be significant. (?) However, I agree completely on your MIT conclusion. If this missile is going to eventually replace the Topol Ms and Yars’, there will be a mobile capability.

Frank Shuler
USA

Frank: There was also a road mobile version of the RT-23 with a giant TEL, but the project was finally cancelled. You may be able to find some pictures of the TEL somewhere.
The Avantgard missile was already tested from a TEL as Pavel reported: http://russianforces.org/blog/2012/10/new_icbm_tested_in_kapustin_ya.shtml

That leaves the question: are there any silo-launchers for Topol-M familay missile at Plesetzk or Kasputin-Yar to test the silo-versions? How was Topol-M tested first before the mobile version was introduced?

Martin

Yes, there are silos at both Plesetsk and KY. Topol-M was test launched from Plesetsk silos made for tests of RT-23/SS-24: launch pads Yuzhnaya and Svetlaya.

As far as I can tell from START data, there are no silos in Kapustin Yar.

Pavel is right. There are no silo launch sites at KY, just a Topol launch garage at LC 107
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3507/kapustinyarlc107topolla.jpg

On the other hand they were several silos at Plesetsk, inluding those for R-16, RT-2, RT-23 and Topol. Some are still active at Plesetsk east, about here 62.877286° 41.766677°.
Bing offers a good view to this site
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4073/plesetskeastins.jpg
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6830/plesetsk628706444177896.jpg

Merry Christmas to you all
Cheers

Some of the older missiles (SS-4, SS-5) were tested out of silos in KapYar.

Including ss-13 from an ss-5 silo (now all silos dismantled). Martin Trolle identified krona with a topol tel near former ss-5 launch pad (converted for space launches) not long ago.

I was wrong...and you are right...of course LC 86 / 87 were silo sites...mayak 1/2 launch system as well as R-14 and even RT-2 were tested there

BTW - bob did you have a reference / link for the finding of Martin Trolle?

BTW: As Bing maps revealed, the former silo sites at KY are all gone now. In so far Pavel was right regarding the START data - there are no silos left at KY
Cheers

Martin

I saw Pavel’s reference to the TEL launch of the Avangard test missile. However, even the term “TEL Launch” in the media isn’t always accurate; or, at least, isn’t accurate to my definition of a TEL launch. To me, such a road mobile system is like the SS-25; a true transporter erector launcher vehicle with an integrated prime mover that can carry, elevate to firing position and launch a ballistic missile. In fact, the recent North Korean launch of the ballistic missile/space launcher was quoted in the press as TEL launched. Clearly, the DPRK missile was launched from a hard-pad, facilitated by an integrated erector, or support tower, as broadcasted on television.

I researched the road mobile TEL version of the SS-24 and saw several mockups of the vehicles but no actual system. Do we know if the SS-24 was actually tested with such?

Not questioning that Avangard will be road mobile in the least. Just looking for details.

Frank Shuler
USA

Frank:
There is a document in German, probably not the most accurate one. But if you scroll down to RT-23M, which is stated to be a follow up system of the RT-23UTTH, there is an image showing a test launch from a TEL. The picture is not the best though. The truck should be a MAZ-7906.
www.dtig.org/docs/GUS_ICBM.pdf

My question with these new ICBM systems is what will the warheads be? Are there new warhead designs or is the current 550 kt warhead developed for the TOPOL the only design that will be used from now on? What about higher yield warhead options? What is Russia's plan for warhead development?